1 00:00:12,370 --> 00:00:09,110 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:22,620 --> 00:00:12,380 from Australia for science and reason 3 00:00:26,010 --> 00:00:22,630 [Music] 4 00:00:30,430 --> 00:00:26,020 yes it's the skeptic Zone episode number 5 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:30,440 426 for the eighteenth of December 2016 6 00:00:35,710 --> 00:00:32,570 Richard Saunders here with you from the 7 00:00:38,410 --> 00:00:35,720 Bay Area the San Francisco Bay Area here 8 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:38,420 in California where it is nice and 9 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:41,930 chilly and cold well for me such a 10 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:45,770 pleasant change after a very sticky hot 11 00:00:50,649 --> 00:00:47,690 muggy week in Sydney with a couple of 12 00:00:52,570 --> 00:00:50,659 cold days I don't know if its climate 13 00:00:56,110 --> 00:00:52,580 change or what's going on but crazy 14 00:01:00,310 --> 00:00:56,120 weather in Sydney but cool crisp sunny 15 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:00,320 weather here in California but you don't 16 00:01:03,219 --> 00:01:01,610 want to know about the weather you can 17 00:01:05,980 --> 00:01:03,229 always listen to the weather podcasts 18 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:05,990 for that is there such a thing I'll have 19 00:01:12,370 --> 00:01:08,090 to have a look coming up on this week's 20 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:12,380 show a grain of salt Iran sir give get 21 00:01:18,670 --> 00:01:16,010 more from QED earlier in the year and 22 00:01:21,460 --> 00:01:18,680 the question explore discover convention 23 00:01:24,249 --> 00:01:21,470 in Manchester this week I run chats with 24 00:01:27,510 --> 00:01:24,259 Britt Hermes a former naturopathic 25 00:01:30,279 --> 00:01:27,520 doctor who shares the hard truths about 26 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:30,289 naturopathic medicine to protect 27 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:34,250 patients our messages please don't be 28 00:01:39,609 --> 00:01:36,890 fooled by natural and alternative 29 00:01:41,230 --> 00:01:39,619 medicine what an interesting interview 30 00:01:45,310 --> 00:01:41,240 this is my friends what an interesting 31 00:01:47,550 --> 00:01:45,320 interview with somebody from should we 32 00:01:50,649 --> 00:01:47,560 say or could we say the other side 33 00:01:53,889 --> 00:01:50,659 something like that so somebody who used 34 00:01:58,090 --> 00:01:53,899 to practice what we regard as a nonsense 35 00:02:01,239 --> 00:01:58,100 and it dawned upon her that it was in 36 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:01,249 fact nonsense and now she's out to help 37 00:02:06,069 --> 00:02:03,890 expose quackery coming up at the top of 38 00:02:08,380 --> 00:02:06,079 the show an interesting interview not to 39 00:02:11,710 --> 00:02:08,390 be missed then after the brakes are more 40 00:02:13,330 --> 00:02:11,720 from my recent trip to a new zealand 41 00:02:16,059 --> 00:02:13,340 where I was a guest of the New Zealand 42 00:02:18,340 --> 00:02:16,069 skeptics this week i chat to susan go 43 00:02:21,370 --> 00:02:18,350 back an old friend from guerrilla 44 00:02:23,410 --> 00:02:21,380 skepticism on wikipedia what's the 45 00:02:24,790 --> 00:02:23,420 latest what's the latest with guerrilla 46 00:02:27,370 --> 00:02:24,800 skepticism what's a bit of the history 47 00:02:31,150 --> 00:02:27,380 of it and what can you do to help find 48 00:02:32,500 --> 00:02:31,160 out with my interview with Susan Kovac 49 00:02:34,570 --> 00:02:32,510 oh and don't forget to look at the show 50 00:02:37,930 --> 00:02:34,580 notes for this week's episode for a 51 00:02:39,700 --> 00:02:37,940 video of Susan at the famous puzzling 52 00:02:43,150 --> 00:02:39,710 world running around the optical 53 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:43,160 illusions then after that it's brouhaha 54 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:46,970 quick science segments this week with 55 00:02:51,310 --> 00:02:49,730 Casey Harrigan now case is going to be 56 00:02:54,850 --> 00:02:51,320 looking at some of the top science 57 00:02:58,000 --> 00:02:54,860 stories for 2016 also reviewing some 58 00:03:02,410 --> 00:02:58,010 science fiction movies and asking the 59 00:03:06,220 --> 00:03:02,420 big question can robots sweat that's 60 00:03:08,140 --> 00:03:06,230 brouhaha from Australia science TV Linda 61 00:03:10,210 --> 00:03:08,150 round off the show guest reporter Kevin 62 00:03:12,940 --> 00:03:10,220 Davies interviews professor Ross Hannon 63 00:03:14,650 --> 00:03:12,950 head of the department of cancer biology 64 00:03:17,110 --> 00:03:14,660 and therapeutics at the John Curtin 65 00:03:18,550 --> 00:03:17,120 school of medical research australian 66 00:03:21,310 --> 00:03:18,560 national university college of medicine 67 00:03:23,850 --> 00:03:21,320 what a title that is what's the latest 68 00:03:26,710 --> 00:03:23,860 on cancer research in australia and 69 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:26,720 what's the link to Jackie Chan the 70 00:03:33,430 --> 00:03:30,890 famous actor / director in his a little 71 00:03:36,460 --> 00:03:33,440 bit of trivia I'm appearing in a Jackie 72 00:03:41,430 --> 00:03:36,470 Chan movie although very briefly coming 73 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:41,440 up soon which was partly shot in Sydney 74 00:03:46,300 --> 00:03:43,850 blink and you'll miss me however there 75 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:46,310 you go cancer research in Australia 76 00:03:50,590 --> 00:03:48,650 coming up at the end of the show now 77 00:03:52,090 --> 00:03:50,600 don't forget those people in California 78 00:03:55,180 --> 00:03:52,100 if you're in the bay area i'll be 79 00:03:57,940 --> 00:03:55,190 speaking on thursday december the 29th 80 00:03:59,740 --> 00:03:57,950 in berkeley and if you're in the orange 81 00:04:04,060 --> 00:03:59,750 county los angeles area i'll be speaking 82 00:04:05,949 --> 00:04:04,070 on friday the 30th of december at irvine 83 00:04:07,449 --> 00:04:05,959 but more information about that later on 84 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:07,459 in the show or just look at the show 85 00:04:12,610 --> 00:04:10,250 notes for this week's episode well it's 86 00:04:17,740 --> 00:04:12,620 time for me to run upstairs now have 87 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:17,750 some beef stew on a cold night that 88 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:20,090 sounds like a good idea and contemplate 89 00:04:27,730 --> 00:04:24,890 the next few days of jet lag oh what fun 90 00:04:30,700 --> 00:04:27,740 it isn't if somebody can come up with a 91 00:04:33,460 --> 00:04:30,710 cure for jet lag well I do all that I 92 00:04:50,879 --> 00:04:33,470 hope you enjoy the skeptics earned 93 00:05:02,590 --> 00:04:53,670 let's all take this with a grain of salt 94 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:02,600 he's around ticket i'm here with treat 95 00:05:10,150 --> 00:05:06,410 Henry's acuity in the bathroom so we'll 96 00:05:13,029 --> 00:05:10,160 try to speak quietly Briggs can you tell 97 00:05:15,969 --> 00:05:13,039 the listeners to the skeptic zone why 98 00:05:18,430 --> 00:05:15,979 I'm speaking to you I think you want to 99 00:05:21,610 --> 00:05:18,440 speak with me because I won the Occam 100 00:05:24,490 --> 00:05:21,620 award for best blog and that was a very 101 00:05:26,590 --> 00:05:24,500 exciting moment for me last night and 102 00:05:29,830 --> 00:05:26,600 you were sitting next to me at the table 103 00:05:31,750 --> 00:05:29,840 and dinner last night and applauded me 104 00:05:34,390 --> 00:05:31,760 as I nervously made my way up to the 105 00:05:36,090 --> 00:05:34,400 stage and fumbled my way through an 106 00:05:39,580 --> 00:05:36,100 acceptance speech very inspiring 107 00:05:41,740 --> 00:05:39,590 acceptance speech well um you know I've 108 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:41,750 been so graciously welcomed into the 109 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:43,930 skeptic community and this is my first 110 00:05:51,159 --> 00:05:49,010 QED con and it's been such a really cool 111 00:05:53,589 --> 00:05:51,169 experience to meet all of these Twitter 112 00:05:58,950 --> 00:05:53,599 personalities live and in the flesh 113 00:06:01,570 --> 00:05:58,960 they're not just cool characters and um 114 00:06:06,250 --> 00:06:01,580 it came it came from the heart I've been 115 00:06:08,650 --> 00:06:06,260 really overwhelmed by how kind and how 116 00:06:10,719 --> 00:06:08,660 cool everybody has been it's been a 117 00:06:12,580 --> 00:06:10,729 really incredible experience okay so 118 00:06:15,250 --> 00:06:12,590 let's backtrack a little bit okay so you 119 00:06:18,670 --> 00:06:15,260 gave a talk yesterday that told the 120 00:06:22,029 --> 00:06:18,680 audience about your journey so you were 121 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:22,039 a natural path yes I was a practicing 122 00:06:28,180 --> 00:06:25,010 naturopathic air-quote doctor in the US 123 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:28,190 for three years i graduated from bastyr 124 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:30,289 university and then went into practice 125 00:06:33,969 --> 00:06:32,090 as a naturopath thinking that i was 126 00:06:37,719 --> 00:06:33,979 adequately trained to practice medicine 127 00:06:39,820 --> 00:06:37,729 and not just adequately trained to 128 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:39,830 practice medicine but also that i had 129 00:06:44,140 --> 00:06:41,930 special knowledge about how the body 130 00:06:47,020 --> 00:06:44,150 worked about how herbal medicines work 131 00:06:49,380 --> 00:06:47,030 that homeopathy was real and that 132 00:06:51,420 --> 00:06:49,390 naturopathy was better than 133 00:06:55,380 --> 00:06:51,430 medicine that somehow naturopaths had 134 00:06:57,900 --> 00:06:55,390 this special sets of diagnosing tools to 135 00:07:00,120 --> 00:06:57,910 be able to find these so-called root 136 00:07:02,550 --> 00:07:00,130 causes of diseases that medical doctors 137 00:07:04,590 --> 00:07:02,560 were somehow missing in their amazing 138 00:07:07,860 --> 00:07:04,600 medical training and that I was getting 139 00:07:10,230 --> 00:07:07,870 in my pseudo pseudo medical training 140 00:07:11,940 --> 00:07:10,240 pseudo naturopathic training and then at 141 00:07:14,130 --> 00:07:11,950 some point I we obviously not going to 142 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:14,140 repeat the entire 50-minute talk that 143 00:07:17,340 --> 00:07:15,250 you gave yesterday that at some point 144 00:07:19,830 --> 00:07:17,350 you basically realized that the evidence 145 00:07:22,710 --> 00:07:19,840 wasn't there so what happened what did 146 00:07:24,450 --> 00:07:22,720 you decide to do I I had a pretty 147 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:24,460 terrible experience where basically my 148 00:07:28,410 --> 00:07:26,890 boss had been importing a medication the 149 00:07:30,270 --> 00:07:28,420 medication was not approved by the FDA 150 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:30,280 which makes it illegal and I found 151 00:07:34,410 --> 00:07:32,530 myself in the middle of this mess and so 152 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:34,420 I walked away from the profession 153 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:37,090 feeling like the majority of naturopathy 154 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:39,850 is unethical and that that I is a 155 00:07:46,860 --> 00:07:42,850 natural path was a fraud and I decided 156 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:46,870 to expose that because as I started to 157 00:07:51,300 --> 00:07:49,210 look into what my education consisted of 158 00:07:54,140 --> 00:07:51,310 and how I was trained I realized that by 159 00:07:56,700 --> 00:07:54,150 default naturopaths are frauds and that 160 00:07:58,500 --> 00:07:56,710 sure people not robots are good people 161 00:08:00,870 --> 00:07:58,510 but we don't have adequate medical 162 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:00,880 training in order to provide competent 163 00:08:04,710 --> 00:08:03,130 medical care and patience needed to know 164 00:08:06,150 --> 00:08:04,720 that this was not medicine and I felt 165 00:08:09,930 --> 00:08:06,160 ethically compelled to speak out about 166 00:08:11,850 --> 00:08:09,940 it and what were the repercussions for 167 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:11,860 you because there were significant 168 00:08:18,570 --> 00:08:15,090 repercussions I well the loss of a 169 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:18,580 community loss of my naturopath friends 170 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:22,930 a lot of hate emails and the loss of 171 00:08:27,510 --> 00:08:25,570 time but more than loss of time was the 172 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:27,520 loss of about a quarter of a million 173 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:30,610 dollars i spent on naturopathy now 174 00:08:35,790 --> 00:08:32,410 trying to figure out how i was going to 175 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:35,800 make any sort of a living not using this 176 00:08:40,290 --> 00:08:37,930 fake medical degree and to pay back my 177 00:08:42,870 --> 00:08:40,300 federal student loans i SAT through your 178 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:42,880 talk yesterday and I must say that it 179 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:45,010 was truly inspiring first of all your 180 00:08:50,550 --> 00:08:47,170 great speaker but there's something else 181 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:50,560 that is that people find it very very 182 00:08:54,210 --> 00:08:52,810 difficult to give up something that 183 00:08:55,910 --> 00:08:54,220 they've invested a lot in other 184 00:08:59,360 --> 00:08:55,920 emotionally or financially or 185 00:09:02,120 --> 00:08:59,370 in terms of time what do you think it is 186 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:02,130 that made you different because it is 187 00:09:05,540 --> 00:09:04,050 different most people will stick I mean 188 00:09:08,900 --> 00:09:05,550 you've actually mentioned through your 189 00:09:11,870 --> 00:09:08,910 talk several colleagues and friends who 190 00:09:13,699 --> 00:09:11,880 actually kind of know but it's fraud but 191 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:13,709 they stick to it because as you said 192 00:09:17,389 --> 00:09:14,970 they have to make a living they have 193 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:17,399 loans to pay and all of that what do you 194 00:09:21,170 --> 00:09:18,810 think it is that drove you to actually 195 00:09:23,540 --> 00:09:21,180 be different and make that huge 196 00:09:25,189 --> 00:09:23,550 sacrifice well I started to look at what 197 00:09:28,310 --> 00:09:25,199 natural rafts were doing because I was 198 00:09:31,129 --> 00:09:28,320 afraid basically so initially fear was a 199 00:09:33,769 --> 00:09:31,139 big motivating factor because I didn't 200 00:09:37,519 --> 00:09:33,779 really understand what I had done by 201 00:09:41,269 --> 00:09:37,529 helping to administer this non-approved 202 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:41,279 cancer drug to patients so fear drove me 203 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:43,170 to start to look at what the legal 204 00:09:47,870 --> 00:09:46,170 implications of that war and then after 205 00:09:49,550 --> 00:09:47,880 just sort of looking at it in a black 206 00:09:52,610 --> 00:09:49,560 and white way like what's legal what's 207 00:09:56,300 --> 00:09:52,620 illegal and instead to look at the the 208 00:09:58,879 --> 00:09:56,310 nuanced ethics of that and you know what 209 00:10:01,519 --> 00:09:58,889 does it mean to call yourself a doctor 210 00:10:04,460 --> 00:10:01,529 or a physician what kind of power comes 211 00:10:06,110 --> 00:10:04,470 with that you know is it ethical to 212 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:06,120 charge money when you're knowingly 213 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:08,610 giving an ineffective remedy even if you 214 00:10:12,850 --> 00:10:10,890 think maybe that's emotionally or 215 00:10:16,519 --> 00:10:12,860 psychologically helping the patient and 216 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:16,529 I began to form some pretty strong 217 00:10:21,199 --> 00:10:19,290 opinions around that based on a huge 218 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:21,209 body of knowledge that was already 219 00:10:27,050 --> 00:10:23,970 present so what really helped me was the 220 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:27,060 fact that there were many sources for me 221 00:10:30,620 --> 00:10:28,290 to turn to of course there are the 222 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:30,630 classics even Barrett's clockwatch which 223 00:10:35,750 --> 00:10:32,850 was really difficult to read I have to 224 00:10:36,870 --> 00:10:35,760 say science-based medicine blog and then 225 00:10:40,050 --> 00:10:36,880 some 226 00:10:42,270 --> 00:10:40,060 or neutral sources of information like 227 00:10:43,650 --> 00:10:42,280 from Simon Singh and as it earns their 228 00:10:45,390 --> 00:10:43,660 book trigger treatment alternative 229 00:10:49,050 --> 00:10:45,400 medicine on trial so I started to make 230 00:10:51,750 --> 00:10:49,060 my way through I tried try to form my 231 00:10:53,850 --> 00:10:51,760 own opinions now what I found was that 232 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:53,860 my opinions already fit with the 233 00:11:00,270 --> 00:10:56,890 opinions of many scientists and skeptics 234 00:11:02,940 --> 00:11:00,280 and so sort of fitting my voice into 235 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:02,950 their voice was a huge light bulb moment 236 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:05,770 for me to realize that I couldn't I 237 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:07,930 couldn't look at myself in the mirror 238 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:11,850 and do this I couldn't do it so you know 239 00:11:17,010 --> 00:11:14,530 with your husband in Germany so and 240 00:11:19,470 --> 00:11:17,020 you're studying studying what I'm 241 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:19,480 studying I'm pursuing a master of 242 00:11:24,030 --> 00:11:22,330 science and biomedical research which 243 00:11:26,460 --> 00:11:24,040 you wouldn't have thought so a few years 244 00:11:28,380 --> 00:11:26,470 ago but it's quite a departure from four 245 00:11:29,610 --> 00:11:28,390 more years to you would have thought at 246 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:29,620 the time you would have thought that it 247 00:11:32,670 --> 00:11:31,090 was science what you were doing but now 248 00:11:35,100 --> 00:11:32,680 you realize that it's quite a departure 249 00:11:37,110 --> 00:11:35,110 right yeah I thought I knew what 250 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:37,120 research was all about I had 251 00:11:41,790 --> 00:11:38,970 participated a little bit in 252 00:11:43,610 --> 00:11:41,800 naturopathic research and looking at the 253 00:11:47,250 --> 00:11:43,620 effectiveness of some herbal remedies I 254 00:11:50,820 --> 00:11:47,260 was not doing anything close to research 255 00:11:53,430 --> 00:11:50,830 then but I only know that because I have 256 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:53,440 gone to great lengths to re-educate 257 00:11:59,730 --> 00:11:57,010 myself and to integrate myself into 258 00:12:01,380 --> 00:11:59,740 communities that strive to produce high 259 00:12:04,170 --> 00:12:01,390 quality research with a high set of 260 00:12:06,180 --> 00:12:04,180 ethics so I've become involved with 261 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:06,190 sense about science all trials campaign 262 00:12:13,680 --> 00:12:10,290 for example and and wanting to 263 00:12:17,490 --> 00:12:13,690 understand all sides of the complexities 264 00:12:19,830 --> 00:12:17,500 of ethics around medicine so well you on 265 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:19,840 the very well deserved welcome award 266 00:12:23,550 --> 00:12:21,850 last night for your blog so where is it 267 00:12:25,410 --> 00:12:23,560 where can people find your blog people 268 00:12:27,210 --> 00:12:25,420 can find me at naturopathic Diaries calm 269 00:12:28,980 --> 00:12:27,220 and you also write for science-based 270 00:12:30,900 --> 00:12:28,990 medicine or have written for sons best 271 00:12:32,580 --> 00:12:30,910 medicine I've written off and on over 272 00:12:35,460 --> 00:12:32,590 the past two years for science-based 273 00:12:37,770 --> 00:12:35,470 medicine calm I also write for science 274 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:37,780 two point oh and I now write for forbes 275 00:12:42,570 --> 00:12:40,330 as well very nice well congratulations 276 00:12:45,680 --> 00:12:42,580 on the award and on doing the right 277 00:13:00,500 --> 00:12:45,690 thing thank you very much baby thank you 278 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:00,510 oh do you think ink and you'll pass 279 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Ben 281 00:13:13,460 --> 00:13:11,190 Goldacre dr. 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00:13:48,180 to big questions a highlight of the 296 00:13:54,650 --> 00:13:50,940 coming season is none other than named 297 00:13:58,880 --> 00:13:54,660 Jane Goodall for more information and to 298 00:14:10,630 --> 00:13:58,890 get your annual pass visit pink inc dot 299 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:22,430 [Music] 300 00:14:28,740 --> 00:14:27,240 so let's talk about gsam yes let's do 301 00:14:30,689 --> 00:14:28,750 that let's that's all I want to talk 302 00:14:34,079 --> 00:14:30,699 about that's it here we are we're at the 303 00:14:36,509 --> 00:14:34,089 beautiful queenstown airport having a 304 00:14:37,769 --> 00:14:36,519 little snack the conference hasn't 305 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:37,779 really started yet but we had a bit of 306 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:39,250 free time and we're right next door 307 00:14:43,740 --> 00:14:42,490 we're right next oh yeah back when we're 308 00:14:45,540 --> 00:14:43,750 at the conference if we look out the 309 00:14:48,150 --> 00:14:45,550 window we can way that the people flying 310 00:14:53,129 --> 00:14:48,160 in or out there are venue is an 311 00:14:54,990 --> 00:14:53,139 ambulance company yeah so go figure it's 312 00:14:57,569 --> 00:14:55,000 lovely but it's a beautiful gift 313 00:14:59,100 --> 00:14:57,579 beautiful day of you I mean I'm my talks 314 00:15:01,920 --> 00:14:59,110 gonna be rubbish but at least people oh 315 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:01,930 no no no no no no it's gonna be 316 00:15:06,749 --> 00:15:03,970 wonderful house Gorillaz kippis isn't 317 00:15:11,490 --> 00:15:06,759 going well how is guerrilla skepticism 318 00:15:13,290 --> 00:15:11,500 on wikipedia going it is I'm going yes 319 00:15:15,750 --> 00:15:13,300 it is going I'm so proud of the people 320 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:15,760 who are working for me and we've 321 00:15:22,350 --> 00:15:18,730 released for new pages in the last 24 322 00:15:27,139 --> 00:15:22,360 hours what are they Wow well there are 323 00:15:31,170 --> 00:15:27,149 four speakers mark hanna and Mark Bryan 324 00:15:32,939 --> 00:15:31,180 Tanya and I'm sorry I put you on the 325 00:15:34,949 --> 00:15:32,949 spot but in other words what I'm trying 326 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:34,959 to get the point is if there's this 327 00:15:37,980 --> 00:15:36,610 because he's a conference yet and so 328 00:15:39,900 --> 00:15:37,990 you're on the ball guerrilla skepticism 329 00:15:42,090 --> 00:15:39,910 what on Wikipedia on the ball and 330 00:15:43,610 --> 00:15:42,100 updating Wikipedia right and we're going 331 00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:43,620 to be doing a lot of photographs and 332 00:15:49,980 --> 00:15:46,510 have you know I as much as we are we're 333 00:15:52,259 --> 00:15:49,990 gonna get your smiling face on the 334 00:15:53,939 --> 00:15:52,269 picture of me at the moment which folks 335 00:15:55,379 --> 00:15:53,949 unless you know it you won't see because 336 00:15:57,870 --> 00:15:55,389 it's going to be replaced tomorrow or 337 00:16:01,110 --> 00:15:57,880 the next day I have is a picture of me 338 00:16:03,269 --> 00:16:01,120 taken oh I don't know 2007 with it from 339 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:03,279 the Australian crew I mean the Alaskan 340 00:16:08,579 --> 00:16:05,170 cruise no the picture of me on Wikipedia 341 00:16:10,889 --> 00:16:08,589 is actually a picture of me dressed up 342 00:16:13,379 --> 00:16:10,899 as a psychiatric patient on a TV show oh 343 00:16:16,470 --> 00:16:13,389 no really yeah yeah oh maybe we should 344 00:16:18,329 --> 00:16:16,480 leave it that's why if you look 345 00:16:20,819 --> 00:16:18,339 carefully i'm wearing as a 346 00:16:24,329 --> 00:16:20,829 gown of a hospital gown I get that it's 347 00:16:26,610 --> 00:16:24,339 a scrub or something like that oh my 348 00:16:29,340 --> 00:16:26,620 gosh no maybes a little bit of trivia 349 00:16:31,499 --> 00:16:29,350 for you okay there you go I am but 350 00:16:34,499 --> 00:16:31,509 anyway with new photos we're going to 351 00:16:36,449 --> 00:16:34,509 get audio and there's a lot of stuff to 352 00:16:40,259 --> 00:16:36,459 do so we've got to get all these pages 353 00:16:43,350 --> 00:16:40,269 done I was working on a page for one of 354 00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:43,360 the founders of the New Zealand skeptics 355 00:16:47,610 --> 00:16:46,720 and you know pulling in the content one 356 00:16:50,189 --> 00:16:47,620 of the thing I'm going to be talking 357 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:50,199 about at this conference is the 358 00:16:53,460 --> 00:16:51,730 importance of gathering the history 359 00:16:54,989 --> 00:16:53,470 collecting it and putting in a place 360 00:16:56,429 --> 00:16:54,999 where we can actually get to it because 361 00:16:58,290 --> 00:16:56,439 a lot of groups don't realize that 362 00:17:00,329 --> 00:16:58,300 they're going to be a thing someday so 363 00:17:02,340 --> 00:17:00,339 that so they don't they don't take the 364 00:17:04,500 --> 00:17:02,350 photos or they don't upload them 365 00:17:07,110 --> 00:17:04,510 someplace where they can be accessed by 366 00:17:09,149 --> 00:17:07,120 a historian because basically we're 367 00:17:11,309 --> 00:17:09,159 historians yeah we're historians at the 368 00:17:13,110 --> 00:17:11,319 skeptic community and we have to be able 369 00:17:19,559 --> 00:17:13,120 to find it you were so kind to give me 370 00:17:23,159 --> 00:17:19,569 wet four gigabytes of above information 371 00:17:25,199 --> 00:17:23,169 from your collection all right I don't 372 00:17:27,539 --> 00:17:25,209 have that I just used it for I pulled up 373 00:17:30,210 --> 00:17:27,549 a video firewalking video from the New 374 00:17:32,100 --> 00:17:30,220 Zealand skeptics oh yeah I looked at my 375 00:17:34,500 --> 00:17:32,110 archives just the other day because I 376 00:17:36,419 --> 00:17:34,510 was thinking about buying another hard 377 00:17:41,340 --> 00:17:36,429 drive to back them up I think it's 378 00:17:45,149 --> 00:17:41,350 running at the moment to 260 gigabytes I 379 00:17:47,279 --> 00:17:45,159 think Wow of archival material i have at 380 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:47,289 the moment so i need to buy bigger 381 00:17:53,210 --> 00:17:51,090 drives to back it out it was upon 382 00:17:56,070 --> 00:17:53,220 thousands of hours and this is no 383 00:17:59,160 --> 00:17:56,080 exaggeration thousands of hours of 384 00:18:01,950 --> 00:17:59,170 videos i have on skeptical matters 385 00:18:04,050 --> 00:18:01,960 because when i joined the skeptics in 386 00:18:06,540 --> 00:18:04,060 australia many years ago one of the 387 00:18:08,550 --> 00:18:06,550 first things I did was i raided the 388 00:18:10,050 --> 00:18:08,560 video library of Barry Williams a 389 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:10,060 longtime editor of the skeptic magazine 390 00:18:17,550 --> 00:18:13,330 who for years before had recorded 391 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:17,560 skeptical things off the telly so that 392 00:18:23,060 --> 00:18:19,810 started me off in my video archiving it 393 00:18:25,170 --> 00:18:23,070 since then raiding youtube or just 394 00:18:27,570 --> 00:18:25,180 sources here and there I've got a lot of 395 00:18:28,890 --> 00:18:27,580 stuff oh yeah and we have to have that 396 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:28,900 and we need to get it in places where 397 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:31,930 somebody can access it for example Barry 398 00:18:40,350 --> 00:18:35,650 car the executive director of psych on 399 00:18:42,930 --> 00:18:40,360 sigh cop he has huge metal filing 400 00:18:47,310 --> 00:18:42,940 cabinets in his office many of them full 401 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:47,320 of scrapbooked newspaper clippings well 402 00:18:51,630 --> 00:18:50,410 that's going to be archived and what is 403 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:51,640 you need to be scanned it needs to be 404 00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:54,010 scanned and forget scanning that takes 405 00:18:59,940 --> 00:18:57,490 too long I'm no plug for Apple but i 406 00:19:01,410 --> 00:18:59,950 have an iphone 7 and my goodness me you 407 00:19:03,300 --> 00:19:01,420 put that in front of a document and take 408 00:19:05,070 --> 00:19:03,310 a picture oh that's true and be able to 409 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:05,080 scan at you'd be able to search for it 410 00:19:08,490 --> 00:19:06,730 yeah yeah there's so much more you need 411 00:19:11,220 --> 00:19:08,500 conduct that pretty quickly into a PDF 412 00:19:12,900 --> 00:19:11,230 which I think can be searchable there's 413 00:19:14,910 --> 00:19:12,910 some technology that does it so yeah a 414 00:19:17,510 --> 00:19:14,920 lot of the material I have at home I do 415 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:17,520 by taking photographs of documents and 416 00:19:22,500 --> 00:19:20,650 they're great Nick you can hi race and 417 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:22,510 away you go and we need to have that 418 00:19:26,490 --> 00:19:24,610 done I you know if there's people out 419 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:26,500 there who really want to help out the 420 00:19:30,510 --> 00:19:28,210 community help out to preserve our 421 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:30,520 history that is one project that needs 422 00:19:34,890 --> 00:19:31,930 to be done and it would really support 423 00:19:36,330 --> 00:19:34,900 JSO w because we don't have the access 424 00:19:37,830 --> 00:19:36,340 to all those newspaper clippings we 425 00:19:39,990 --> 00:19:37,840 don't even know they exist you can't 426 00:19:42,030 --> 00:19:40,000 find him there are as i discovered 427 00:19:44,460 --> 00:19:42,040 recently in the skeptic zone fans will 428 00:19:46,740 --> 00:19:44,470 remember a few weeks ago I did a story 429 00:19:49,500 --> 00:19:46,750 about archiving I found lots of things 430 00:19:51,390 --> 00:19:49,510 on the web where newspapers have been 431 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:51,400 archived there are lots in the world 432 00:19:56,130 --> 00:19:53,170 that haven't right and it needs to be 433 00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:56,140 done and in your right this sort of 434 00:19:59,790 --> 00:19:57,490 thing is invaluable for what you're 435 00:20:01,860 --> 00:19:59,800 doing we did the I rewrote the Wikipedia 436 00:20:06,330 --> 00:20:01,870 page for the New Zealand skeptics a few 437 00:20:10,890 --> 00:20:06,340 weeks ago I could not find photographs 438 00:20:13,380 --> 00:20:10,900 of the conference before 2010 439 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:13,390 they're not there I know people had 440 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:15,730 cameras I'm sure they're there somewhere 441 00:20:20,970 --> 00:20:17,410 but nobody can find him I can help you 442 00:20:25,350 --> 00:20:20,980 out oh because I last spoke at the New 443 00:20:29,130 --> 00:20:25,360 Zealand skeptics conference in 2003 oh I 444 00:20:30,420 --> 00:20:29,140 think and after this interview thanks to 445 00:20:32,310 --> 00:20:30,430 the wonders of the internet I can 446 00:20:34,530 --> 00:20:32,320 probably pull up photographs there you 447 00:20:37,890 --> 00:20:34,540 go we've been having conferences since 448 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:37,900 1986 that i did not know that's 449 00:20:42,810 --> 00:20:40,450 impressive I had no idea myself I had to 450 00:20:44,340 --> 00:20:42,820 go back and search and the people here 451 00:20:46,350 --> 00:20:44,350 have been very very generous with their 452 00:20:48,780 --> 00:20:46,360 time helping me find these records but 453 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:48,790 there's very few records to find we went 454 00:20:53,060 --> 00:20:50,290 through the archives of all the old 455 00:20:55,740 --> 00:20:53,070 magazines that they have they have 456 00:20:57,540 --> 00:20:55,750 written and we were able to get a little 457 00:21:00,240 --> 00:20:57,550 bit of information here they're like 458 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:00,250 maybe you would say in our last 459 00:21:05,670 --> 00:21:03,250 conference in Wellington and I thought 460 00:21:07,830 --> 00:21:05,680 oh the conferences in Wellington that's 461 00:21:10,350 --> 00:21:07,840 all I know you know you know the year 462 00:21:13,260 --> 00:21:10,360 and in the city but that was all there's 463 00:21:16,710 --> 00:21:13,270 no flyer there's no photographs there's 464 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:16,720 I don't who the speakers were yeah well 465 00:21:23,130 --> 00:21:20,170 i did so long now I don't I cannot 466 00:21:26,340 --> 00:21:23,140 remember who the speakers were on the 467 00:21:29,250 --> 00:21:26,350 conference that I went to I went with a 468 00:21:30,870 --> 00:21:29,260 Linda and we were some of the original 469 00:21:33,330 --> 00:21:30,880 members of the mr. investigated to show 470 00:21:35,610 --> 00:21:33,340 and we did a performance here in New 471 00:21:37,140 --> 00:21:35,620 Zealand it was a Christchurch yeah so we 472 00:21:38,430 --> 00:21:37,150 did a very early version of the mystery 473 00:21:40,260 --> 00:21:38,440 investigators show complete with the 474 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:40,270 better nails because they had a bed of 475 00:21:43,590 --> 00:21:42,010 nails believe it or not I was going to 476 00:21:45,930 --> 00:21:43,600 ask how'd you get the bed of nails I had 477 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:45,940 they had one and we did water divining 478 00:21:52,350 --> 00:21:47,890 in the hollow and you know what way and 479 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:52,360 now we chat about it I have the video of 480 00:21:57,900 --> 00:21:55,050 it at home because I videoed that 481 00:21:59,400 --> 00:21:57,910 performance how about that well now I 482 00:22:01,470 --> 00:21:59,410 know what we're going to be doing later 483 00:22:03,780 --> 00:22:01,480 today we're good at well once you get 484 00:22:05,220 --> 00:22:03,790 back to when to get back to Australia 485 00:22:07,710 --> 00:22:05,230 and I get back to the United States but 486 00:22:09,990 --> 00:22:07,720 I know this stuff is out there yeah and 487 00:22:11,820 --> 00:22:10,000 I can't just take it off the web even if 488 00:22:17,180 --> 00:22:11,830 I found it I have to have the permission 489 00:22:20,189 --> 00:22:17,190 of the person who owns it to upload it 490 00:22:22,139 --> 00:22:20,199 you know it's just too important it is 491 00:22:23,430 --> 00:22:22,149 it is it's very important so what are 492 00:22:26,849 --> 00:22:23,440 some of the highlights over the last 493 00:22:28,349 --> 00:22:26,859 couple of years with your work so what 494 00:22:29,639 --> 00:22:28,359 we're trying to do is encouraging people 495 00:22:31,589 --> 00:22:29,649 out there to get really interesting 496 00:22:33,479 --> 00:22:31,599 Susan so what are the some of the 497 00:22:35,549 --> 00:22:33,489 highlights so one of the things we've 498 00:22:37,969 --> 00:22:35,559 done recently is we have completely 499 00:22:42,799 --> 00:22:37,979 changed how we train it is all 500 00:22:45,989 --> 00:22:42,809 self-paced I am the trainer and we are 501 00:22:48,689 --> 00:22:45,999 existing on facebook in a secret hidden 502 00:22:51,839 --> 00:22:48,699 group where we it's called the secret 503 00:22:53,519 --> 00:22:51,849 cabal and once you join our training 504 00:22:55,889 --> 00:22:53,529 program you're put in the secret cabal 505 00:22:57,809 --> 00:22:55,899 with all the other editors and we learn 506 00:22:59,579 --> 00:22:57,819 from each other we discuss what we're 507 00:23:02,159 --> 00:22:59,589 doing we proof read each other's 508 00:23:04,349 --> 00:23:02,169 articles we help train each other 509 00:23:07,859 --> 00:23:04,359 suggestions it's just incredible it's a 510 00:23:11,309 --> 00:23:07,869 very powerful friendly encouraging 511 00:23:13,319 --> 00:23:11,319 environment then as I said we've changed 512 00:23:15,989 --> 00:23:13,329 training so that it's we're using google 513 00:23:18,029 --> 00:23:15,999 documents it's self-paced people can do 514 00:23:20,549 --> 00:23:18,039 it at their own leisure and I will keep 515 00:23:21,899 --> 00:23:20,559 up with them as they edit so as they go 516 00:23:23,009 --> 00:23:21,909 through their assignments they report 517 00:23:24,629 --> 00:23:23,019 back to me and say I finish this 518 00:23:26,789 --> 00:23:24,639 assignment or whatever and I check it 519 00:23:29,339 --> 00:23:26,799 and we come we and we talked about it 520 00:23:31,169 --> 00:23:29,349 and we move on to the next one so you 521 00:23:32,609 --> 00:23:31,179 can watch all the videos and follow all 522 00:23:34,799 --> 00:23:32,619 the blogs and you can read everything 523 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:34,809 you need to read and on your own time so 524 00:23:39,629 --> 00:23:36,369 it can take you weeks or months to 525 00:23:42,599 --> 00:23:39,639 finish and I think that the way we've 526 00:23:45,769 --> 00:23:42,609 set it up now is much less stress on me 527 00:23:48,749 --> 00:23:45,779 so you should assign everything yes and 528 00:23:50,729 --> 00:23:48,759 people are able to as I say do it in 529 00:23:56,309 --> 00:23:50,739 their own time and I this has been a 530 00:23:58,559 --> 00:23:56,319 skill this has been a boon we're putting 531 00:24:04,319 --> 00:23:58,569 more people through training now in a 532 00:24:06,449 --> 00:24:04,329 quicker way now do it to end up you've 533 00:24:08,609 --> 00:24:06,459 had your critics this what the guerrilla 534 00:24:11,729 --> 00:24:08,619 skepticism in wikipedia has had critics 535 00:24:14,219 --> 00:24:11,739 over the wall what's their beef the only 536 00:24:16,559 --> 00:24:14,229 critics we really have had are from the 537 00:24:19,099 --> 00:24:16,569 paranormal community they blame us for 538 00:24:23,609 --> 00:24:19,109 anything and everything that happens 539 00:24:27,299 --> 00:24:23,619 homeopaths the Brazil ski clinic Deepak 540 00:24:29,910 --> 00:24:27,309 Chopra Rupert sheldrick oh they hate us 541 00:24:33,060 --> 00:24:29,920 Oh natural news is written up Elise 542 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:33,070 three articles on me saying that I on 543 00:24:39,750 --> 00:24:38,410 David Gorski are the bane of skepticism 544 00:24:41,940 --> 00:24:39,760 or something I don't know he they see 545 00:24:44,580 --> 00:24:41,950 they think he's in charge of the kurla 546 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:44,590 skepticism oka PD project which is 547 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:50,410 hilarious and uh and so yeah we're hated 548 00:24:56,910 --> 00:24:54,490 well I say we're endorsed by so many 549 00:24:58,710 --> 00:24:56,920 people because you know you're doing a 550 00:25:01,050 --> 00:24:58,720 darn good job whatever these people are 551 00:25:02,970 --> 00:25:01,060 attacking you and they really aren't 552 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:02,980 even attacking us they write a blog they 553 00:25:07,140 --> 00:25:05,770 they get all huffed up about it and we 554 00:25:09,150 --> 00:25:07,150 haven't even done whatever it is they 555 00:25:10,740 --> 00:25:09,160 said they've done that we're doing that 556 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:10,750 that's the most hilarious part that's 557 00:25:14,340 --> 00:25:13,090 not unusual they don't know how to check 558 00:25:15,810 --> 00:25:14,350 sources they don't know how to I mean 559 00:25:18,690 --> 00:25:15,820 everything is out there if they wanted 560 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:18,700 to find out and really did really care 561 00:25:21,930 --> 00:25:20,530 they could find out it would take them 562 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:21,940 maybe 20 minutes to figure this whole 563 00:25:27,420 --> 00:25:25,330 thing out who i am who everybody is what 564 00:25:29,100 --> 00:25:27,430 we're doing and they would be sadly 565 00:25:30,810 --> 00:25:29,110 disappointed because we really aren't 566 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:30,820 doing the things that they think we are 567 00:25:33,810 --> 00:25:32,170 but we'll take the reputation because 568 00:25:36,090 --> 00:25:33,820 it's great well they'll be sadly 569 00:25:37,470 --> 00:25:36,100 disappointed when if they discover that 570 00:25:39,150 --> 00:25:37,480 we're not actually part of the 571 00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:39,160 Illuminati or the conspiracy and we're 572 00:25:44,070 --> 00:25:42,370 not funded by whatever X corporate a big 573 00:25:48,210 --> 00:25:44,080 farmer at least or whatever X 574 00:25:52,260 --> 00:25:48,220 corporation we're not and sometimes I 575 00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:52,270 think damn that when I totally agree if 576 00:25:56,430 --> 00:25:54,370 we could only have the power that they 577 00:25:58,350 --> 00:25:56,440 think we have then I would you know we 578 00:26:00,990 --> 00:25:58,360 would roll before you would make what 579 00:26:03,030 --> 00:26:01,000 changes with it well if you can judge 580 00:26:05,070 --> 00:26:03,040 somebody by the caliber of their enemies 581 00:26:22,650 --> 00:26:05,080 Susan and you're a formidable person 582 00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:22,660 indeed thank you Richard and now direct 583 00:26:32,010 --> 00:26:25,360 from the cafe at Australia's science 584 00:26:36,270 --> 00:26:33,380 [Music] 585 00:26:39,420 --> 00:26:36,280 2016 we might not be able to set it on 586 00:26:41,700 --> 00:26:39,430 fire but boy are we glad it's over let's 587 00:26:45,030 --> 00:26:41,710 turn lemons into lemonade by looking to 588 00:26:47,370 --> 00:26:45,040 our one true love science here are our 589 00:26:51,810 --> 00:26:47,380 top three biggest science stories of 590 00:26:54,150 --> 00:26:51,820 2016 first up the Zika virus the disease 591 00:26:56,460 --> 00:26:54,160 has been around since the 40s but it was 592 00:26:58,140 --> 00:26:56,470 in February that the wh 0 declared a 593 00:27:01,590 --> 00:26:58,150 public health emergency of international 594 00:27:04,350 --> 00:27:01,600 concern between investigating sexual 595 00:27:05,930 --> 00:27:04,360 transmission and microcephaly and the 596 00:27:08,370 --> 00:27:05,940 risks associated with the Rio Olympics 597 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:08,380 Zika was never going to stray far from 598 00:27:13,260 --> 00:27:11,170 the headlines but in a hobby update the 599 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:13,270 virus was taken off the global emergency 600 00:27:18,270 --> 00:27:15,490 list last month and vaccine research is 601 00:27:19,850 --> 00:27:18,280 making headway and the second story that 602 00:27:21,660 --> 00:27:19,860 kept on catching our attention 603 00:27:25,050 --> 00:27:21,670 international cooperation on climate 604 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:25,060 change exciting oh no but it really is 605 00:27:29,820 --> 00:27:27,010 amazing that the Paris agreement which 606 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:29,830 was negotiated by 195 countries at the 607 00:27:37,170 --> 00:27:32,770 cop21 summer in 2015 came into effect in 608 00:27:39,060 --> 00:27:37,180 November and in October 197 countries 609 00:27:41,510 --> 00:27:39,070 agreed to update the Montreal Protocol 610 00:27:43,950 --> 00:27:41,520 banning emissions causing refrigerants 611 00:27:46,410 --> 00:27:43,960 let's finish up with flat out the 612 00:27:49,230 --> 00:27:46,420 universe is amazing and science rules 613 00:27:52,110 --> 00:27:49,240 news we found evidence of gravitational 614 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:52,120 waves three cheers for everyone at LIGO 615 00:27:56,930 --> 00:27:53,770 for observing the chirp and the data 616 00:27:59,790 --> 00:27:56,940 that proved Einstein's 1916 prediction 617 00:28:03,779 --> 00:27:59,800 gravitation causes space-time to ripple 618 00:28:06,210 --> 00:28:03,789 at the speed of light so that was 2016 619 00:28:08,639 --> 00:28:06,220 after all the ups and all the downs all 620 00:28:15,690 --> 00:28:08,649 we can say is be excellent to each other 621 00:28:17,789 --> 00:28:15,700 and 2017 we can't wait to meet you movie 622 00:28:20,159 --> 00:28:17,799 nerds like me the warmer weather means 623 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:20,169 blockbusters on Boxing Day and Oscar 624 00:28:23,909 --> 00:28:22,570 bait in the new year but until i'm 625 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:23,919 watching Chris Pratt and Jennifer 626 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:25,690 Lawrence wake up early from graduating 627 00:28:30,029 --> 00:28:28,330 sleep on a massive spaceship I'll just 628 00:28:32,879 --> 00:28:30,039 need to reflect on the year in movie 629 00:28:35,549 --> 00:28:32,889 science that was let's start with the 630 00:28:38,849 --> 00:28:35,559 award for most unrealistic portrayal of 631 00:28:41,639 --> 00:28:38,859 a stem career in a 2016 film and it's 632 00:28:44,820 --> 00:28:41,649 Margot Robbie as Harley Quinn in Suicide 633 00:28:47,869 --> 00:28:44,830 Squad look once that baseball bat start 634 00:28:50,279 --> 00:28:47,879 swinging she is are amazing 635 00:28:52,019 --> 00:28:50,289 unfortunately she hasn't been a 636 00:28:54,450 --> 00:28:52,029 psychiatrist long enough to build up the 637 00:28:56,249 --> 00:28:54,460 level of experience necessary to treat 638 00:28:59,099 --> 00:28:56,259 the severe issues that would land a 639 00:29:01,379 --> 00:28:59,109 patient in Arkham Asylum but the award 640 00:29:04,769 --> 00:29:01,389 for best scientist on screen in 2016 641 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:04,779 goes to Amy Adams as dr. Louise thanks 642 00:29:09,119 --> 00:29:06,970 in a rival she doesn't just use her 643 00:29:11,129 --> 00:29:09,129 lingual skills to save the world she 644 00:29:12,869 --> 00:29:11,139 defends the scientific method and teams 645 00:29:15,599 --> 00:29:12,879 up with the theoretical physicist to 646 00:29:18,269 --> 00:29:15,609 talk to aliens she's come she's 647 00:29:20,279 --> 00:29:18,279 communicative and she works hard that's 648 00:29:25,950 --> 00:29:20,289 the kind of scientists I want to be when 649 00:29:28,859 --> 00:29:25,960 I grow up to quote the greatest human on 650 00:29:31,349 --> 00:29:28,869 the planet Beyonce da a little slate 651 00:29:32,839 --> 00:29:31,359 ain't never hurt nobody okay I never 652 00:29:36,659 --> 00:29:32,849 claimed she was the greatest of grammar 653 00:29:38,729 --> 00:29:36,669 anyway now nobody includes robots you 654 00:29:41,369 --> 00:29:38,739 see scientists in Japan we're building a 655 00:29:43,409 --> 00:29:41,379 humanoid robot named Hank or oh that was 656 00:29:46,589 --> 00:29:43,419 really bendy and flexible but also 657 00:29:49,169 --> 00:29:46,599 really strong this is taking a lot of 658 00:29:50,879 --> 00:29:49,179 motives which get really hot but don't 659 00:29:53,539 --> 00:29:50,889 leave much room for the usual cooling 660 00:29:57,779 --> 00:29:53,549 systems like fans or circulating coolant 661 00:30:00,119 --> 00:29:57,789 gamma hey but wait they thought you and 662 00:30:02,310 --> 00:30:00,129 I are really bendy and flexible and our 663 00:30:05,609 --> 00:30:02,320 muscles create heat which we reliever 664 00:30:08,310 --> 00:30:05,619 sweat Eureka they said and they all went 665 00:30:10,799 --> 00:30:08,320 out for sushi to celebrate okay probably 666 00:30:13,289 --> 00:30:10,809 not but they did met kangaroo a new 667 00:30:15,260 --> 00:30:13,299 porous aluminium frame using a process 668 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:15,270 similar to 3d printing 669 00:30:19,670 --> 00:30:17,730 the spongy nature of this new skeleton 670 00:30:22,730 --> 00:30:19,680 allows water to seep onto its surface 671 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:22,740 and evaporative cooling can go down so 672 00:30:27,620 --> 00:30:25,170 much that 11 minutes straight push ups 673 00:30:31,630 --> 00:30:27,630 is a breeze can't wait to see how many 674 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:31,640 squats kangaroo can push out on leg day 675 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:35,010 for more brouhaha and Australian science 676 00:30:52,130 --> 00:30:50,130 head for ww Australia science TV this 677 00:30:54,410 --> 00:30:52,140 December in California i'll be giving my 678 00:30:58,550 --> 00:30:54,420 talk strange energies and even stranger 679 00:31:01,700 --> 00:30:58,560 devices too good to be true on the 29th 680 00:31:03,500 --> 00:31:01,710 and the 30th of december the torque on 681 00:31:07,010 --> 00:31:03,510 the 29th december will be in berkeley 682 00:31:08,870 --> 00:31:07,020 and on the 30th in irvine my hosts for 683 00:31:11,570 --> 00:31:08,880 the berkeley event will be the bay area 684 00:31:17,330 --> 00:31:11,580 skeptics and my host in irvine will be 685 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:17,340 the orange county science club for more 686 00:31:22,010 --> 00:31:19,290 information and to book your seat see 687 00:31:26,060 --> 00:31:22,020 the show notes linked to this episode of 688 00:31:37,250 --> 00:31:26,070 the skeptic zone i'm looking forward to 689 00:31:39,980 --> 00:31:37,260 seeing you in california i'm pleased to 690 00:31:41,510 --> 00:31:39,990 say that australia in many ways leads 691 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:41,520 the world when it comes to things like 692 00:31:47,900 --> 00:31:45,690 cancer research now our guests reporter 693 00:31:50,690 --> 00:31:47,910 kevin davies interviews professor ross 694 00:31:52,490 --> 00:31:50,700 hannah head of the department of cancer 695 00:31:56,460 --> 00:31:52,500 biology and therapeutics at the John 696 00:31:59,230 --> 00:31:56,470 Curtin school of medical research 697 00:32:01,090 --> 00:31:59,240 i'm here at the John Curtin school of 698 00:32:03,039 --> 00:32:01,100 medical research at the anu and i'm 699 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:03,049 speaking to professor ross henan 700 00:32:07,330 --> 00:32:05,690 pleasure to read it well tell us a 701 00:32:09,519 --> 00:32:07,340 little bit about the John Curtin school 702 00:32:11,049 --> 00:32:09,529 of medical research oh yes John Burns 703 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:11,059 core medical research is one of the 704 00:32:16,899 --> 00:32:13,970 oldest research institutes dedicated 705 00:32:19,180 --> 00:32:16,909 just to experimental research that 706 00:32:21,460 --> 00:32:19,190 little teaching undergraduate a lot of 707 00:32:25,539 --> 00:32:21,470 postgraduate teaching and it was formed 708 00:32:27,159 --> 00:32:25,549 in 1946 to staff to the war obviously by 709 00:32:29,529 --> 00:32:27,169 john curtin lu that prime minister and 710 00:32:31,090 --> 00:32:29,539 was realized that we needed a day in 711 00:32:33,489 --> 00:32:31,100 advance medical research center in 712 00:32:35,739 --> 00:32:33,499 australia and tell us a little about 713 00:32:37,450 --> 00:32:35,749 yourself what do you research what is 714 00:32:39,759 --> 00:32:37,460 your area of expertise so my background 715 00:32:41,289 --> 00:32:39,769 I spent the last 15 years of the job had 716 00:32:43,210 --> 00:32:41,299 to pick maccallum cancer center in 717 00:32:45,100 --> 00:32:43,220 normal which is Australia's only 718 00:32:47,980 --> 00:32:45,110 dedicated cancer hospital and I ran our 719 00:32:50,470 --> 00:32:47,990 large group there and I moved from there 720 00:32:52,539 --> 00:32:50,480 to John Curtin early last year to set up 721 00:32:55,269 --> 00:32:52,549 what is the first department of cancer 722 00:32:56,859 --> 00:32:55,279 in any university in australia so the 723 00:32:59,529 --> 00:32:56,869 new department is the first leader found 724 00:33:01,180 --> 00:32:59,539 in john curtin and over 20 years solely 725 00:33:03,129 --> 00:33:01,190 dedicated to cancer research should have 726 00:33:06,460 --> 00:33:03,139 pretty excited to have that focus and a 727 00:33:10,029 --> 00:33:06,470 critical mask and on the tour earlier 728 00:33:12,190 --> 00:33:10,039 today i got to see a new laboratory that 729 00:33:14,430 --> 00:33:12,200 was under construction that dealing with 730 00:33:17,619 --> 00:33:14,440 targeted medicines would you be able to 731 00:33:19,629 --> 00:33:17,629 this is a new high throughput screening 732 00:33:22,149 --> 00:33:19,639 facility and the goal of the screening 733 00:33:23,830 --> 00:33:22,159 facility is to be able to reduce the 734 00:33:26,259 --> 00:33:23,840 impossible to the possible so this 735 00:33:28,330 --> 00:33:26,269 facility which is run by robots and high 736 00:33:30,460 --> 00:33:28,340 tech high throughput microscopes and 737 00:33:33,999 --> 00:33:30,470 other sorts of facts analyzers can 738 00:33:36,909 --> 00:33:34,009 basically screen millions of drugs to 739 00:33:38,710 --> 00:33:36,919 find new targets for new types of cancer 740 00:33:40,389 --> 00:33:38,720 and it can do this in a real-time within 741 00:33:42,820 --> 00:33:40,399 weeks as opposed to something it would 742 00:33:44,379 --> 00:33:42,830 be a possible to do and not only doing 743 00:33:46,029 --> 00:33:44,389 screams small molecules to find new 744 00:33:48,340 --> 00:33:46,039 drugs we can take advantage of some 745 00:33:51,159 --> 00:33:48,350 really neat technologies out there like 746 00:33:54,549 --> 00:33:51,169 gene editing so one of these gene 747 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:54,559 editing processes is a new technology 748 00:33:57,900 --> 00:33:56,530 for deleting individually genes 749 00:33:59,460 --> 00:33:57,910 the genome but now we can do that in 750 00:34:02,040 --> 00:33:59,470 heitz report that we can individually 751 00:34:03,510 --> 00:34:02,050 delete every gene and the genome and ask 752 00:34:05,820 --> 00:34:03,520 how it affects a certain process 753 00:34:07,380 --> 00:34:05,830 functional genomics in other words and 754 00:34:09,659 --> 00:34:07,390 how long do you think we'll start seeing 755 00:34:12,510 --> 00:34:09,669 these sort of drugs entering the 756 00:34:14,430 --> 00:34:12,520 mainstream to be here so the normal time 757 00:34:16,710 --> 00:34:14,440 it takes to develop a drug in industry 758 00:34:18,510 --> 00:34:16,720 is about ten years but that's because 759 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:18,520 there's a lot of constraints of Industry 760 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:20,530 and how they do things in the university 761 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:22,690 environment we can do that in three to 762 00:34:26,340 --> 00:34:24,370 five years we think it's a great 763 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:26,350 environment for doing things cheaper and 764 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:28,890 faster than what often that takes 765 00:34:32,490 --> 00:34:30,970 industry a long time so we hope the 766 00:34:33,930 --> 00:34:32,500 screening facility we built in the end 767 00:34:35,909 --> 00:34:33,940 of the year here's a couple of months 768 00:34:37,710 --> 00:34:35,919 time we'll start doing a first 769 00:34:40,890 --> 00:34:37,720 experiments next year we hope to be 770 00:34:42,630 --> 00:34:40,900 finding molecules for the cancer therapy 771 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:42,640 paralysis of immune problems probably 772 00:34:46,890 --> 00:34:44,650 within three 3 four years that's 773 00:34:50,130 --> 00:34:46,900 excellent I really do wish you the best 774 00:34:52,740 --> 00:34:50,140 of luck as I said unfortunately my 775 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:52,750 father died of cancer and so I want I 776 00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:55,330 want you to get those drugs out there 777 00:34:58,680 --> 00:34:57,370 yeah if that's the real reason we're 778 00:35:01,080 --> 00:34:58,690 doing this is but as well we've done 779 00:35:02,460 --> 00:35:01,090 really well in certain cancers instead 780 00:35:04,380 --> 00:35:02,470 in childhood cancers is eighty percent 781 00:35:06,150 --> 00:35:04,390 survival rate to certain cancers like 782 00:35:08,730 --> 00:35:06,160 lung cancer which father passed away 783 00:35:10,890 --> 00:35:08,740 from cancer by prostate cancer we've 784 00:35:12,180 --> 00:35:10,900 really not made any differences in the 785 00:35:14,340 --> 00:35:12,190 last 20 years and these are really 786 00:35:15,930 --> 00:35:14,350 difficult cancers and we need to use the 787 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:15,940 latest technology these high throughput 788 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:17,890 mass attack approaches to try and find 789 00:35:23,430 --> 00:35:20,410 new therapies why are these cancers so 790 00:35:25,140 --> 00:35:23,440 much more difficult it's hard to say but 791 00:35:27,690 --> 00:35:25,150 with lung cancer as a cancer which has a 792 00:35:29,670 --> 00:35:27,700 really massive mutation rate because 793 00:35:31,740 --> 00:35:29,680 often its associated with smoking not 794 00:35:33,660 --> 00:35:31,750 always and smoking causes lots of 795 00:35:36,810 --> 00:35:33,670 mutations so these cancers have a high 796 00:35:38,700 --> 00:35:36,820 burden of mutation and so that cancer is 797 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:38,710 a clonal disease if you have a drug 798 00:35:42,930 --> 00:35:40,930 which treats ninety percent of the souls 799 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:42,940 you have ten percent of the cells which 800 00:35:45,930 --> 00:35:44,410 are left over which have a different 801 00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:45,940 mutation and they are resistant to 802 00:35:50,190 --> 00:35:48,250 disease and so the disease comes back 803 00:35:51,870 --> 00:35:50,200 again and then he treated with another 804 00:35:54,150 --> 00:35:51,880 drug you killed ninety percent of those 805 00:35:55,620 --> 00:35:54,160 cells that you still have ten percent of 806 00:35:57,510 --> 00:35:55,630 the ten percent left or they grow back 807 00:35:58,980 --> 00:35:57,520 again so you keep on clonely selecting 808 00:36:01,260 --> 00:35:58,990 out these different mutations it's 809 00:36:03,910 --> 00:36:01,270 really difficult other cancers only have 810 00:36:06,769 --> 00:36:03,920 five or ten mutations 811 00:36:09,499 --> 00:36:06,779 lung cancer has some of most high sperm 812 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:09,509 the mutations a bit like melanoma skin 813 00:36:13,459 --> 00:36:11,729 affected cancer we ever Sun causing 814 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:13,469 these mutations once again melanoma is 815 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:16,170 very difficult to treat now during the 816 00:36:20,870 --> 00:36:18,930 tour you mentioned that you were looking 817 00:36:23,839 --> 00:36:20,880 at safe places like the Great Barrier 818 00:36:26,059 --> 00:36:23,849 Reef for to try and find new drugs new 819 00:36:27,709 --> 00:36:26,069 compounds Keith please talk about that a 820 00:36:29,269 --> 00:36:27,719 little bit yeah look this is actually 821 00:36:30,709 --> 00:36:29,279 something which was tried many years ago 822 00:36:32,299 --> 00:36:30,719 by big drug companies and I didn't 823 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:32,309 succeed very well this is taking natural 824 00:36:35,299 --> 00:36:34,170 compounds to find new drugs this is 825 00:36:37,279 --> 00:36:35,309 because they didn't have the right 826 00:36:39,079 --> 00:36:37,289 technology that I didn't have these 827 00:36:40,789 --> 00:36:39,089 functional screens that we have what we 828 00:36:43,609 --> 00:36:40,799 look at how a drug affects a process 829 00:36:45,910 --> 00:36:43,619 rather than individual molecule and so 830 00:36:47,900 --> 00:36:45,920 the idea of them is that nature produces 831 00:36:50,569 --> 00:36:47,910 millions and millions of different 832 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:50,579 compounds and these evolved view of the 833 00:36:54,799 --> 00:36:52,410 organisms it could be a mosque it could 834 00:36:56,739 --> 00:36:54,809 be a spandrel could be a coral reef and 835 00:36:58,969 --> 00:36:56,749 so we know that these drugs have 836 00:37:00,650 --> 00:36:58,979 proteins and other factors they bind to 837 00:37:01,789 --> 00:37:00,660 you they have a function what we're 838 00:37:02,689 --> 00:37:01,799 trying to do is find out what their 839 00:37:04,430 --> 00:37:02,699 function is because it's like a 840 00:37:06,140 --> 00:37:04,440 lock-and-key they have been developed 841 00:37:07,430 --> 00:37:06,150 over these millions of years so they're 842 00:37:08,930 --> 00:37:07,440 highly efficient to binding these 843 00:37:10,999 --> 00:37:08,940 proteins so if we can pull these 844 00:37:12,650 --> 00:37:11,009 molecules out and find out what their 845 00:37:14,959 --> 00:37:12,660 function is we may find ones which you 846 00:37:16,279 --> 00:37:14,969 naturally say block cell growth or 847 00:37:17,989 --> 00:37:16,289 accelerate silver it's in the case of 848 00:37:20,150 --> 00:37:17,999 cancer some huge may block cell growth 849 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:20,160 and so we want to go back and revisit 850 00:37:24,319 --> 00:37:22,650 Australia's key moments called so it's 851 00:37:27,650 --> 00:37:24,329 all these molecules which are produced 852 00:37:30,170 --> 00:37:27,660 by the bacteria by sponges are all sort 853 00:37:31,819 --> 00:37:30,180 of biological agents and we hope that we 854 00:37:33,289 --> 00:37:31,829 can go back and the advantage of these 855 00:37:36,229 --> 00:37:33,299 drugs as they're really complex 856 00:37:37,609 --> 00:37:36,239 molecules a lot of the libraries which 857 00:37:39,259 --> 00:37:37,619 people are terribly screening is 858 00:37:41,599 --> 00:37:39,269 synthetic libraries they're made by man 859 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:41,609 they screen these man-made libraries to 860 00:37:45,849 --> 00:37:43,170 try and find a new small molecule that 861 00:37:48,739 --> 00:37:45,859 inhibit cancer because they're man-made 862 00:37:51,769 --> 00:37:48,749 they're simple it is very hard to make 863 00:37:53,029 --> 00:37:51,779 really complex molecules whereas these 864 00:37:55,370 --> 00:37:53,039 drugs which were isolated from 865 00:37:57,349 --> 00:37:55,380 Australia's key moment very complex and 866 00:37:58,880 --> 00:37:57,359 if you look at fifty percent of all 867 00:38:00,410 --> 00:37:58,890 dragons are used in cancer they've 868 00:38:01,969 --> 00:38:00,420 actually come from naturally occurring 869 00:38:03,870 --> 00:38:01,979 compounds everything is a good area to 870 00:38:06,749 --> 00:38:03,880 go back and harvest 871 00:38:09,150 --> 00:38:06,759 now how many researchers do you have in 872 00:38:12,329 --> 00:38:09,160 the school here so the John Curtin be 873 00:38:14,450 --> 00:38:12,339 about 380 to 400 people in total of that 874 00:38:17,460 --> 00:38:14,460 probably 300 those will be dedicated to 875 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:17,470 research right through from basic 876 00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:18,970 fundamental research through T 877 00:38:24,059 --> 00:38:21,730 preclinical uneven clinical at work will 878 00:38:25,859 --> 00:38:24,069 be putting drugs into human beings now I 879 00:38:28,079 --> 00:38:25,869 noticed before we were in the Jackie 880 00:38:30,059 --> 00:38:28,089 Chan science center can you explain a 881 00:38:32,099 --> 00:38:30,069 little bit more about the link yes in 882 00:38:33,809 --> 00:38:32,109 the Jackie Chan I'm not completely over 883 00:38:35,190 --> 00:38:33,819 that one but i'm pretty sure that jackie 884 00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:35,200 chan's mother used to live here and she 885 00:38:38,849 --> 00:38:36,730 was treated in the local hospital and so 886 00:38:41,420 --> 00:38:38,859 that was a donation to long as they help 887 00:38:44,279 --> 00:38:41,430 the local people here gave his mother 888 00:38:45,779 --> 00:38:44,289 fantastic fantastic this is part of 889 00:38:47,430 --> 00:38:45,789 these donations from the people like 890 00:38:49,829 --> 00:38:47,440 that make the big difference nice having 891 00:38:51,599 --> 00:38:49,839 fantastic pieces of equipment well this 892 00:38:54,329 --> 00:38:51,609 is you know this is a big deal it's an 893 00:38:56,130 --> 00:38:54,339 arms race resist those people that have 894 00:38:57,390 --> 00:38:56,140 the best toys win that partners race and 895 00:38:59,299 --> 00:38:57,400 so we need to be able to compete with 896 00:39:01,620 --> 00:38:59,309 America with UK with the best equipment 897 00:39:03,150 --> 00:39:01,630 and so people that donate money like 898 00:39:05,849 --> 00:39:03,160 that as we can enable this device them 899 00:39:07,710 --> 00:39:05,859 as best equipment you're saying there's 900 00:39:09,749 --> 00:39:07,720 about a three year turnaround for 901 00:39:11,430 --> 00:39:09,759 technology is that getting shorter and 902 00:39:13,620 --> 00:39:11,440 shorter yeah it is we're finding that 903 00:39:16,289 --> 00:39:13,630 the new devices for sequencing genes to 904 00:39:17,609 --> 00:39:16,299 discover mutations right you know the 905 00:39:20,009 --> 00:39:17,619 machine that we've all three years ago 906 00:39:22,140 --> 00:39:20,019 as outdated is a much better machine now 907 00:39:24,779 --> 00:39:22,150 which can sequence faster figure reads 908 00:39:27,150 --> 00:39:24,789 and so you know you have to keep on 909 00:39:28,380 --> 00:39:27,160 finding the money to buy the new latest 910 00:39:30,180 --> 00:39:28,390 technologies that's where the new 911 00:39:32,609 --> 00:39:30,190 discoveries or comfortable sound with 912 00:39:34,970 --> 00:39:32,619 microscopes and the microscopes but the 913 00:39:38,009 --> 00:39:34,980 new technology for visualizing cells is 914 00:39:39,420 --> 00:39:38,019 accelerating all through 22 to physics 915 00:39:42,870 --> 00:39:39,430 and maths and then better sort of 916 00:39:44,759 --> 00:39:42,880 knowledge so it's clearly an area where 917 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:44,769 you have to somehow compete with these 918 00:39:48,210 --> 00:39:46,450 products which go out of date very 919 00:39:49,499 --> 00:39:48,220 quickly this expensive business as you 920 00:39:51,180 --> 00:39:49,509 can imagine yeah I guess one of the 921 00:39:53,940 --> 00:39:51,190 really good things about particularly 922 00:39:55,349 --> 00:39:53,950 the ANU University it's a hub for people 923 00:39:56,570 --> 00:39:55,359 from all over the world so they come to 924 00:39:58,970 --> 00:39:56,580 and so 925 00:40:01,400 --> 00:39:58,980 laboratory about fifty percent of the 926 00:40:05,140 --> 00:40:01,410 staff but not born in Australia some 927 00:40:09,590 --> 00:40:05,150 have come out from Asia from UK Germany 928 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:09,600 South America Canada to do maybe an 929 00:40:12,740 --> 00:40:11,490 undergraduate degree or to do a PhD here 930 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:12,750 or some of the company to do their 931 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:14,130 postdoctoral research because they're 932 00:40:17,270 --> 00:40:15,690 looking for a really good laboratory in 933 00:40:19,190 --> 00:40:17,280 this case it's a cancer research 934 00:40:21,170 --> 00:40:19,200 laboratory so we have a really diverse 935 00:40:22,550 --> 00:40:21,180 for the people which is I think it's 936 00:40:23,660 --> 00:40:22,560 fantastic because it people from 937 00:40:25,430 --> 00:40:23,670 different backgrounds have different 938 00:40:26,710 --> 00:40:25,440 ways of thinking to be surprising how 939 00:40:28,340 --> 00:40:26,720 different ways that you can actually 940 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:28,350 synergize when they get them together 941 00:40:33,530 --> 00:40:31,410 little large bit okay thank you very 942 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:33,540 much professor Ross Hannon my pleasure 943 00:40:54,530 --> 00:40:51,570 thank you amazing news for supporters of 944 00:40:58,280 --> 00:40:54,540 maynard calm today you and Maynard's 945 00:41:03,140 --> 00:40:58,290 podcasts you are entitled yes you you 946 00:41:06,230 --> 00:41:03,150 are entitled to download the 2017 main 947 00:41:09,050 --> 00:41:06,240 are the calendar be the first person on 948 00:41:11,780 --> 00:41:09,060 your block and your city perhaps even 949 00:41:14,990 --> 00:41:11,790 your country to own the 2017 maynard 950 00:41:18,590 --> 00:41:15,000 calendar yes spend every month with me 951 00:41:22,070 --> 00:41:18,600 nerd for more information visit www a 952 00:41:26,020 --> 00:41:22,080 calm day you and send may not a message 953 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:26,030 asking about your 2017 maynard 954 00:41:44,630 --> 00:41:29,010 downloadable printable calendar 955 00:41:48,779 --> 00:41:47,220 thank you for listening to the skeptic 956 00:41:52,349 --> 00:41:48,789 zone next week the skeptic zone 957 00:41:54,930 --> 00:41:52,359 Christmas special well it's a skeptic 958 00:41:57,539 --> 00:41:54,940 zone on Christmas whether it's special 959 00:41:59,460 --> 00:41:57,549 or not I don't know I hope so I catch up 960 00:42:01,890 --> 00:41:59,470 with me nod and have a chat to him about 961 00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:01,900 Christmas more from the New Zealand 962 00:42:07,349 --> 00:42:04,089 convention where I catch up with my old 963 00:42:10,470 --> 00:42:07,359 friend Loretta Marin the jelly bean lady 964 00:42:14,190 --> 00:42:10,480 and she's going to be chatting about the 965 00:42:16,319 --> 00:42:14,200 ongoing success of friends of science in 966 00:42:18,809 --> 00:42:16,329 medicine what a wonderful outfit they 967 00:42:21,990 --> 00:42:18,819 are scoring victories for reason in 968 00:42:25,529 --> 00:42:22,000 Australia and inspiring people around 969 00:42:27,990 --> 00:42:25,539 the world I imagine we might have a an 970 00:42:29,579 --> 00:42:28,000 interview with a sea lion here in San 971 00:42:32,130 --> 00:42:29,589 Francisco or something like that I don't 972 00:42:35,430 --> 00:42:32,140 know I have to explore see what I can 973 00:42:38,519 --> 00:42:35,440 find and a big shout-out to Henrietta 974 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:38,529 and more the skeptics own cats I hope 975 00:42:43,859 --> 00:42:41,890 you're doing okay in in Sydney and a big 976 00:42:46,260 --> 00:42:43,869 shout out to Mandrake the new skeptic 977 00:42:48,210 --> 00:42:46,270 zone kitten up there with Joe alabaster 978 00:42:50,069 --> 00:42:48,220 in the mountains and if you've got a 979 00:42:52,380 --> 00:42:50,079 little cat or kitten a big shout out to 980 00:42:54,750 --> 00:42:52,390 your cat or kitten they quite turn 981 00:42:57,569 --> 00:42:54,760 there's something about cats I used to 982 00:42:59,609 --> 00:42:57,579 be a dog person but now I cat person cat 983 00:43:02,279 --> 00:42:59,619 people will know what I mean enough 984 00:43:04,799 --> 00:43:02,289 about pets for this week this is Richard 985 00:43:11,519 --> 00:43:04,809 Saunders signing off from the Bay Area 986 00:43:13,799 --> 00:43:11,529 San Francisco you've been listening to 987 00:43:17,339 --> 00:43:13,809 the skeptics own podcast visit our 988 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:17,349 website at wwc a petting zoo TV for 989 00:43:23,970 --> 00:43:19,930 contacts an archive of all episodes 990 00:43:26,130 --> 00:43:23,980 since 2008 and our online store please 991 00:43:29,460 --> 00:43:26,140 support the skeptic zone by following us 992 00:43:32,450 --> 00:43:29,470 on twitter at skeptic zone liking us on 993 00:43:34,799 --> 00:43:32,460 facebook and leaving a review on iTunes 994 00:43:37,470 --> 00:43:34,809 you can also show your support by 995 00:43:40,589 --> 00:43:37,480 subscribing via paypal for as little as 996 00:43:42,550 --> 00:43:40,599 ninety-nine cents a week the skeptic 997 00:43:44,650 --> 00:43:42,560 zone is an independent production 998 00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:44,660 the views and opinions expressed on the 999 00:43:49,410 --> 00:43:46,730 skeptic zone and not necessarily those 1000 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:49,420 of Australian skeptically or any other